WARNING: This story contains graphic and sensitive content.
A psychiatric expert giving evidence at Lauren Dickason鈥檚 High Court murder trial has been grilled today by the defence about her process and findings.
But she maintains the woman who confessed to smothering her young children to death was not insane at the time.
And she had told the court that it may have been 鈥減remeditated鈥.
Defence lawyer Kerryn Beaton KC has questioned whether a court-appointed health assessor had a good enough rapport with Dickason and whether she considered all of the information available to her in forming her professional opinion that the accused was not insane when she killed her children.
Dr Simone McLeavey maintains she is 鈥渃omfortable and confident鈥 in her opinion and that she undertook 鈥渟ufficient鈥 work to form her opinion that Dickason does not have a defence of insanity or infanticide.
顿颈肠办补蝉辞苍听.
But she has pleaded not guilty to three charges of murder and has mounted a defence of insanity or infanticide.
Lauren Anne Dickason allegedly killed 6-year-old Lian茅, and 2-year-old twins Maya and Karla at their Timaru home on September 16.
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- Lauren Dickason trial: Crown psych expert says 'no evidence' of insanity
She is on trial in the High Court at Christchurch before Justice Cameron Mander and a jury.
The trial is now in its fourth week and is expected to run into next week.
So far, extensive evidence has been presented about the 42-year-old鈥檚 life - her upbringing, marriage,.
The jury watched footage of police interviews with Dickason and her
Psychiatric experts began giving evidence last week and that continued today.
The jury will hear from five experts in total - three are being called for the defence and two for the Crown.
On Thursday Dr Simone McLeavey - a court-appointed psychiatrist who was called upon to assess Dickason soon after her arrest - gave evidence for the Crown.
McLeavey - who oversees a forensic rehabilitation unit at HIllmorton Hospital - said while Dickason a 鈥渕entally disordered woman with a vulnerable personality鈥 and had a 鈥渓imited capacity to manage stress鈥 - she did not believe she was insane at the time of the alleged murders and has no infanticide defence.
鈥淚t remains my opinion that the defendant鈥檚 disease of mind did not seriously impair her reality, testing ability and capacities thereof such that she did not know the alleged offending was morally wrong, having regard to the commonly accepted standards of right and wrong,鈥 she said.
鈥淚 am of the opinion that this is a tragic case where a mentally disordered woman with a vulnerable personality killed her children in the context of the situation which she perceived to be beyond her limited capacity to manage stress ... in addition to underlying mental illness.
鈥淭aking these factors into consideration, on the balance of probability, I am of the opinion the defendant would not be eligible for an insanity defence.鈥
Lauren Dickason was remanded to Hillmorton Hospital after her arrest and first appearance in court. Photo / NZ Herald
She said while Dickason had an 鈥渁bnormal mental health state鈥, she 鈥渃annot unequivocally subscribe鈥 to the theory that the 鈥渂alance of her mind was disturbed by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth鈥.
That was partly because of Dickason鈥檚 鈥減ropensity for depression鈥 dating back to when she was 15 years old.
鈥淚t is my opinion on the balance of probability, there is no evidence that the defendant has an infanticide defence available,鈥 she said.
Beaton began cross-examining McLeavey on Thursday and continues today.
She has questioned the doctor at length about her forensic experience, how she was selected to undertake the assessment of Dickason, how she carried out that work and what other information she considered when forming a final opinion.
McLeavey remained firm that Dickason 鈥渨as suffering from a recurrence of a major depressive disorder鈥 but was able to function in her daily life.
That, in her mind, supported her conclusion.
鈥楿ndoubtedly鈥 depressed, and angry - but not insane says Crown expert
McLeavey last week said she disagreed with any suggestion Dickason killed with an 鈥渁ltruistic motive鈥.
Defence expert Dr Susan Hatters-Friedman - a forensic and reproductive psychiatrist - had earlier told the jury Dickason鈥檚 actions were that of a parent killing 鈥渙ut of love鈥 rather than out of anger or hate.
鈥淪he had been severely depressed and had developed psychotic thinking,鈥 she said.
鈥淪he attempted to kill herself 鈥 she viewed the world as dangerous for her children to grow up in.
鈥淪he saw a joint suicide and filicide as a way out of this for her beloved children and herself 鈥 She thought she was getting her children to safety.鈥
But McLeavey did not believe that was the case.
鈥淎ny altruistic motivation was, in my opinion, fueled more so by a need for control and anger,鈥 she said last week.
She said that stemmed from a 鈥渧ulnerable鈥 Dickason finding the thought of her husband remarrying after her suicide - and another woman parenting her children - untenable.
Beaton quizzed her on that further today, asking what led to her form that conclusion.
She said it was Dickason鈥檚 admission she killed Karla first because the child had been 鈥渄emonic, screaming, feisty鈥.
鈥淪he was angry and that was why she targeted Karla in the first instance,鈥 she said.
McLeavey said Dickason was 鈥渦ndoubtedly significantly depressed鈥 but she was 鈥渁ble to maintain the responsibilities of daily living鈥 which did not point to insanity.
鈥淗er depression didn鈥檛 worsen... her perception of the situation worsened,鈥 she said.
鈥淪he was distressed at that moment in time... She had a negative distortion of reality... which would be not uncommon in depression.鈥
Under cross-examination, McLeavey also remained firm on her view that Dickason was not experiencing psychosis when she killed the girls.
She said it was 鈥榰nusual to miss鈥 psychosis symptoms.
鈥淚t would be exceptional for psychosis not to be detected if in fact, it was present,鈥 she said.
鈥淕rieving would not in itself mask psychosis... she was clinically depressed... her physical health was compromised.... not lacking of insight she was very self-aware of the situation she found herself.
鈥淪he was indeed insightful... she was very cooperative.
鈥淚 believe there was self-awareness sin the lead-up to the (alleged) offending... and she remained insightful.鈥
McLeavey said she initially noted that the killings were 鈥渋mpulsive鈥 but her opinion had since changed and she believed they were 鈥減ossibly premeditated鈥.
She said the fact Dickason had carried out Google searches about overdosing her children was 鈥渃ompelling鈥.
Paired with Dickason鈥檚 earlier admissions she had thought of hurting or killing the girls, she felt there could have been a degree of planning.
鈥淗e had a very clearly informed intention to harm the children,鈥 she said.
鈥淭here was more than ideation鈥 there was planning鈥 there was consideration for specific means and methods.
鈥淭here was a loss of control, to act on the thoughts.鈥
Beaton argued the alleged offending was 鈥渆ntirely impulsive鈥 and her client 鈥渉adn鈥檛 planned it at all鈥.
The cross-examination continues.
After the expert evidence is complete the jury will hear closing addresses from the Crown and defence.
Then Justice Mander will sum up the case in its entirety and instruct the jury on its role - and how it should work towards reaching a verdict.
The jury will then be sent to deliberate.
It is expected the trial may not reach that point until next week.
The King v Lauren Anne Dickason - the trial so far:
The Crown alleges Dickason murdered the children in a 鈥渃alculated鈥 way because she was frustrated, angry and resentful of them.
It acknowledges Dickason suffered from sometimes-serious depression, but maintains she knew what she was doing when she killed the girls.
Last week,聽and killed them 鈥渕ethodically and purposefully, perhaps even clinically鈥.
The defence says Dickason was a severely mentally disturbed woman in the depths of postpartum depression and did not know the act of killing the children was morally wrong at the time of their deaths.
Further, it says she was 鈥渋n such a dark place鈥 she had decided to kill herself and felt 鈥渋t was the right thing to do鈥 to 鈥渢ake the girls with her鈥.
Lauren Dickason during her police interview. Photo / Pool
The Crown: The evidence will firmly point towards 鈥榤ethodical鈥 murder
Crown Prosecutor Andrew McRae said there was no question the case was tragic and that Dickason was mentally unwell.
鈥淭here is no doubt in this case that the defendant was responsible for killing,鈥 he said.
鈥淭he issue in this case, is whether Mrs Dickason intended to kill her children out of frustration, anger for their behaviour, or resentment for how they got in the way of her relationship - or whether in fact, her state of mind at the time was such that she must have been insane or have the partial defence of infanticide.
鈥淭he Crown says there was anger here, and she methodically killed all three of her children.
鈥淭his is going to be a difficult trial and one that you鈥檙e going to need to listen very carefully to the evidence is presented.
鈥淏ut I stress to you - this is not a trial by expert. The expert evidence will be a part of the material that you will need to make your decision in this case.鈥
鈥淎 trial is a search for the truth - and the Crown says that the truth is that while the defendant was likely suffering from a major depressive disorder, she knew what she was doing before, during and after she acted methodically and purposefully, perhaps even clinically and what she did.
鈥淪he knew, the Crown say, what she was doing was morally wrong, and continued on her course, in any event.
鈥淵our task is to determine the truth of what happened, and more specifically the truth about Mrs Dickason鈥檚 state at the time that she killed her children.鈥
Crown Prosecutor Andrew McRae. Photo / George Heard
He said Dickason had 鈥渁 lifelong propensity towards anxiety and perfectionism.
鈥淸She was] always demanding very high standards from herself, and a tendency towards self-criticism for any actual or perceived failure to meet those standards.
鈥淭he Crown says the unpredictable nature of children and their behaviour clashed strongly with their personality traits.
鈥淭he Crown case is that the defendant was angry at her children on the night - she was angry at them for not listening, and for jumping on the couch after her husband had left the house.
鈥淪he described the pressure she was under and this made her snap. The anger was bubbling over from many aspects of her life, the ongoing behaviour of the children but, also, the Crown says she was resentful of how the children, that they stood in the way of her relationship with her husband.鈥
McRae said the jurors would naturally want to find 鈥渁 palatable motive to explain the inexplicable.
鈥淏ut the Crown says that the motive was simple here that she snapped.
鈥淚t was the straw that snapped the camel鈥檚 back, she was under pressure, and when the children misbehaved her anger at the children took over and she killed them.
鈥淭he cause of this, the Crown say, was not a disturbance of the mind from childbirth, nor was she insane.鈥
The defence: insanity or infanticide - Dickason鈥檚 diseased mind to blame
Dickason is represented by a team of lawyers led by Kerryn Beaton KC.
鈥淟auren Dickason was a loving mother and wife. She loved Lian茅, Maya and Karla very much and yet she killed them - and as you鈥檝e just heard it was violent and it was prolonged.
鈥淏ut afterwards she put her girls in their beds, she tucked them in with their soft toys, she covered them up with their blankets and then she took an overdose of pills trying to kill herself, but she failed.
鈥淭his is brutal. It鈥檚 confronting. It鈥檚 difficult to hear and to imagine鈥 what Lauren Dickason did was shocking and horrifying and you might well be thinking what mother could do that to their children?
鈥淎 terrible person is what the Crown would have you believe, who resented her children and who wanted them gone.
鈥淏ut the truth is that Lauren Dickason is a woman who longed to be a mother who went through 17 rounds of IVF to have her three daughters. She wanted those children very much and she loved her family.
鈥淏ut on the 16th of September 2021, Lauren Dickason was experiencing a major depressive episode of such severity that not only did she think she had to kill herself, she thought she had to take her girls with her.鈥
Kerryn Beaton KC is representing Lauren Dickason at her murder trial. Photo / George Heard
Beaton said it was undeniable her client 鈥渟ometimes struggled with being a mum.
鈥淪he was sometimes angry or irritated with her kids, her husband, with motherhood, she complained about them.
鈥淪he ranted to her friends, having twins was hard.鈥
Beaton said Dickason battled with her mental health and " thoughts and feelings of harming her children鈥 over the years.
鈥淪he was scared by those thoughts and feelings and in 2019, she saw a psychiatrist for help,鈥 she revealed.
鈥淏ut you鈥檒l hear that despite those thoughts and feelings, she was loving, she was protective of her children, including on the day they died, she actually took great care of her children.
鈥淪he always tried to do what was best for them. They were not mistreated or abused until the night of the 16th of September 2021.
鈥淒espite what the Crown would have you think, Lauren Dickason is not a bad person - she鈥檚 intelligent, she鈥檚 educated, she鈥檚 caring, she鈥檚 loving, she鈥檚 a much-loved daughter, sister and friend.
鈥淎nd you鈥檒l hear that by the 16th of September, she wasn鈥檛 communicating well with her husband or her family and she was very unwell and while those close to her were worried about her, tragically, no one recognised just quite how unwell she was until it was too late.鈥
Beaton said the defence evidence would show the 鈥渢ragic event鈥 happened because Dickason was 鈥渋n such a dark place so removed from reality.
鈥淪o suicidal, so disordered in her thinking that when she decided to kill herself that night, she thought she had to take the girls with her,鈥 she said.
鈥淭hese issues will crystallise for you during the trial.
鈥淵ou will hear that no one who knew her would ever have thought she could do this to her babies. But she did.鈥
She said after Dickason killed the girls her 鈥渋ntention was to go to bed鈥 and to never wake up鈥.
鈥淭he question is why she did that,鈥 she posed.
鈥淎ll three defence experts say her mind was disturbed by reason of her postpartum depression arising from childbirth.
鈥淎ll of the defence experts agree that there was an altruistic motive鈥 That means that Lauren killed her children out of love.
鈥淚n her mind, she was killing them out of love - she was killing herself and she didn鈥檛 want to leave the children鈥 she was so sure this was the right thing to do she persisted.鈥
Toohey said the decision to kill herself and the children was 鈥渟pontaneous.
鈥淪he believed life was no longer worth living, for either her or her children.
鈥淪he decided to kill herself and she felt that they were all better off dead. Lauren felt inadequate as a mother, she found it hard to cope鈥︹
Toohey said Dickason was 鈥渟everely鈥 unwell and had been effectively spiralling into a deep depression with suicidal thoughts for months.
鈥淭his is about postpartum depression and a mother who killed her children,鈥 she said.
鈥淪he did not want to leave her children without a mum鈥 she also did not want her children to suffer from having such a bad mother.
鈥淭his was an impulsive decision - she did not plan it.鈥
Toohey said Dickason was 鈥渁 highly intelligent capable person鈥, a doctor by profession whose 鈥渆ntire vocation in life is geared toward saving lives.
鈥淲hy did she kill her three beautiful girls, who she fought for years to get through brutal IVF treatments - her girls who she loved and protected?
鈥淭he answer is that Lauren was severely mentally unwell on that night. There is no question about that.鈥
In the weeks leading up to the family moving to New Zealand Toohey said Dickason鈥檚 family and husband were 鈥渁ll desperately worried鈥 about her.
On the day of the alleged murders her client was 鈥渟o deep into her depression, removed from reality鈥 that she decided to die and take her daughters with her.
鈥淚f you find that Lauren鈥檚 mind was disturbed at the time, this happened due to postpartum depression, then this is not murder, it鈥檚 infanticide,鈥 Toohey said.
鈥淎nd if she didn鈥檛 know what she was doing was morally wrong that night, then she is not guilty of murder or infanticide, that is insanity.鈥
SUICIDE AND DEPRESSION
Where to get help:
鈥⒙: Call 0800 543 354 or text 4357 (HELP) (available 24/7)
鈥⒙: Call 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO) (available 24/7)
鈥 Youth services: (06) 3555 906
鈥⒙: Call 0800 376 633 or text 234
鈥⒙: Call 0800 942 8787 (11am to 11pm) or webchat (11am to 10.30pm)
鈥⒙: Call 0800 111 757 or text 4202 (available 24/7)
鈥 Helpline: Need to talk? Call or text 1737
If it is an emergency and you feel like you or someone else is at risk, call 111
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